Interview of Archbishop Peter Akinola
Interview by Joel Edwards, director of the Evangelical Alliance, UK
Lauded by some and lambasted by others, Archbishop Peter Akinola wields influence far outside his Anglican province of Nigeria. Third Way found him grounded in a hotel near Heathrow Airport.
In 2006 and 2007, Time listed you as one of the 100 most influential people in the world. How do you reconcile the status of a primate in the Anglican Communion with the call to humility and servanthood?
I suppose my background helps me to achieve that. My father died December 12, 1948 when I was barely five years old; my mother never went to any school, and so when I left primary school in 1959 there was no one to even pay my fees to go to secondary school. I was on my own then, struggling through life to get to where I am today. From time to time I ask myself: ‘Peter, who do you think you are?’ and I remind myself of who I know I am. As we say in my country, I have been ‘hewed out of the rocks’. I have no claim whatsoever to glory, to glamour, to superstar syndrome - I’m not into such things - and so I have no choice but to be humble. Let me be blunt with you: I’m a nobody, all right?
Look at Jesus Christ, my Lord and Saviour, whom I serve, who has called me to serve him, who has made me whom he has made me! Look at the pattern of his life! He stooped to conquer. He had the power to turn the nails on the cross into common thread, but he didn’t do it. He had the power to bring down soldiers from heaven to destroy his enemies. He didn’t do it. Rather, he subjected himself to inhuman treatment. But then on the third day God raised him from the dead and gave him his name that is above every name.
And that for me is the principle of life - as he himself said: ‘He who humbles himself will be exalted. And he who exalts himself will be abated.’ So, I believe that and I practise that.
You had very modest beginnings but also a tremendous amount of drive. Where did that come from?
I’ve always believed in sheer hard work. My mother, who is now 93 years old, could probably be described as a workaholic in her younger years. She told me: ‘Hard work never kills; indolence destroys.’ I grew up with that philosophy. In the office, when I gave anyone an assignment and he asked me, ‘Baba, when is it due?’ I’d say: ‘Yesterday.’ So… we’d just laugh. But I meant it, you know? There is so much to do, so don’t waste time.
You’re a family man. How important is that to you?
Oh, extremely important. The Lord has been extraordinarily good to me, far beyond what I could have ever wished or prayed for. I have six children - I used to say ‘three boys and three girls’, but they tell me now they are men and women. The eldest is 38, and the youngest is 25 - he’s a priest. Two of them are computer engineers, one of them is a banker, one works in the Marriott Hotel here in London. So, they are all over the place.
And the good news is that, unlike what many clergy suffer from their children, I have never spent a sleepless night over any child. It’s amazing, and to God is to be all the glory for giving me that extra grace.
Are the gifts required to be a good father transferable to being an archbishop? Are you a bigger father?
In 2002 there was an elderly man in my office whom I appointed director of administration. He is senior to me in age - he would be about 80 years old now - but I happened to be the bishop and he was an archdeacon; and he started calling me ‘Baba’. I said, ‘Why are you calling me “Baba”?’ He said, ‘Well, you are our spiritual father.’ And before I knew what was happening, it had spread all over the country. Young, old, men, women - Baba, Baba, Baba, Baba - ‘Father’, you know? Brother bishops, archbishops, you know? And it’s awesome.
It gives me a tremendous sense of responsibility. In my younger years as a canon, priest, oh, oh, oh, I could be a little bit aggressive. But when everybody begins to call you Baba, you have no choice but to behave like one - to be more tender, more pastoral, more caring.
Does that sense of being a spiritual father extend beyond your own church?
Indeed. First of all, in the Christian Association of Nigeria - which brings together all our Christian people, Roman Catholic, Anglican, Methodist, Pentecostal - my colleagues elected me president for four years. So, I had to play the fatherly role though I was much younger than many of the other elders, because they looked up to me for leadership and guidance.
At the regional level we have the Council of Anglican Provinces of Africa - we have 12 primates in Africa, like Dr Rowan [Williams] in England is Primate of All England. And the very first time I attended their meeting, they elected me their chairman. So, again, a huge responsibility. Each of my colleagues has his own sovereign church, and yet they call me ‘Baba’, they call me ‘chairman’. I have to work very hard to ensure that we achieve whatever we want to achieve by consensus. So, we discuss as gentlemen, as elders, as fellow fathers.
Beyond Africa is what is called ‘the Global South’ [a grouping of the 20 of the Anglican Communion's 38 provinces that are in the southern hemisphere]. Again, my colleagues chose me to be their chairman. Whatever they saw in me, I don’t know. So, the same principle, all the way. You have to bear in mind that each primate, each bishop is an authority in his own right, with his own jurisdiction, and for him to submit to your leadership he must be given due respect. And so you consult with him, you share with him, you don’t dictate to him and so you achieve results.
I’ve applied the same principle to Gafcon [the Global Anglican Future Conference], and this afternoon its Primates’ Council made me their chairman. Nobody advertises these positions, you don’t send a CV to anybody; they just say, ‘Oh, we request our baba to be our chairman’ or something - and everybody endorses it.
How would you respond to the assertion that Gafcon is a personal triumph for Archbishop Peter Akinola?
I would say that is - what is the word I would use now? - a lie. A falsehood of the highest order. Akinola is only one of many leaders. Akinola will have some ideas, yes, he’ll make suggestions, but they have to be endorsed by my brothers. I didn’t put myself in the chair, they put me there - and if I try to go my own way, I look back and there’s nobody there to lead. My colleagues, too, have their own ideas and we take our decisions together. If we achieve any success, it is not because Akinola is A or B, it is because we have a common mind, a common vision and a common ambition to make it happen.
I want to say also that there are people all over the world who are praying day and night: for me, for my colleagues, for our programmes, for our work. And I’ll tell you what, God in his mercy honours those prayers.
You are described as deeply conservative. What does that term mean to you?
That this person is conserving what he has - and what on earth is wrong with that? You have something and it is very precious to you, and so you conserve it. Alleluia! So, we have the written word, we have the faith, we have Jesus Christ, and I conserve. If that is being conservative, I am happy to be a conservative. Yes?
And I’ll keep on being a conservative, because there is no other name given under heaven by which Man shall be saved. And Christ says, ‘I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father but by me.’ Now, these are not empty religious rhetorics. These are eternal truths declared by the Lord of life and the King of kings. And I’ve come to experience it in my own life, and it is true. I know him, he works in me, he guides me and directs me. So, I cannot but cherish, I cannot but conserve, this truth. Conservative? Yes. Proud to be, too. Very proud to be.
How do we balance biblical truth and the convictions of a life lived in Christ?
There can be no fruitful life in Christ without first of all embracing, cherishing, conserving biblical truth. That eternal truth leads you to know Christ. It’s not an empty truth; it’s a very powerful truth. ‘Come unto me, all ye who labour and are heavy-laden and I will give you rest.’ It is true. I’ve come to him and he has given me that rest. So, I know it and I can proclaim it, all right?
And how does African culture intersect with that truth?
A very interesting question. Very interesting question. Let me say, I’ve an issue. For me, the gospel of Jesus Christ must always be allowed to challenge whatever is ungodly in any culture. If the gospel cannot challenge and reform any culture, then it ceases to be the gospel of Jesus Christ. So, whatever in my culture is not consistent with the mind of God must go. It has to go.
The tendency in the West to accommodate cultural trends with the Christian religion is one of the big problems we are facing today in the world. Christian leaders seem to have lost the sense that their duty is first and foremost to proclaim the gospel of Christ - the same gospel their forefathers brought to my own country 150 years ago. My forefathers engaged in human sacrifice. Whenever twins were born, they would kill them - this was a taboo. But when the gospel came, it changed all that. Alleluia! It changed all that.
In this country, this same gospel led people like the Clapham [Sect], William Wilberforce, Charles Wesley, John Wesley, to stop and say, ‘This is the word of God’ - and it changed the culture. They looked at slavery and said, ‘This is ungodly, you can’t do this.’ They fought and fought and fought for decades; in the end, they won. The gospel transformed society. But Christians today say, ‘Oh no, no, no, no, no, just acquiesce! Just be gentle! Just be politically correct! Just be moderate! Just be tolerant!’ Now, that’s arrant nonsense.
Is there a tension in that for Akinola the man as opposed to Akinola the archbishop?
As I told you before, the starting-point is Christ. Who is Akinola without Christ? Who is Akinola without the Church? Nobody. At first, maybe, 30 years ago, there was a dichotomy between the man Akinola and the pastor Akinola, but not any more. What I cannot do in this room, I will not do outside it. What I cannot say in Lagos, I will not say in London. All right? So, the question of dichotomy, the question that will cast doubt on my integrity, for me has disappeared. I can’t see my life other than through the glasses of Jesus Christ. I can’t think of myself as a civilian, as it were. I just can’t.
Some people would say that the church in Britain is held captive by the culture, and there are those who would say the same about the church in Nigeria. How do you respond to the issue of endemic corruption, for instance?
I wish the church had some law-enforcement agency we could encourage to arrest the arrestable, to jail the jailable, to banish the banishable; but it doesn’t. All the church can do is proclaim the word, and it is doing it. All Akinola can do is proclaim the word, regardless of whom it offends. Akinola proclaims the word in season and out of season, in low places and in high places. Akinola looks straight in the eyes of whoever and tells him what he believes God is saying he should say.
What is your response to the prosperity gospel?
One problem in Nigeria is the fact that a few members of the cabal that sits on our nation’s wealth are living a life that does not reflect who they really are. They steal public money and pack it away in European vaults with European collaborators. (It takes two to tango. No Nigerian official can be corrupt, truly, without a collaborator in the West.) And when the ordinary people see this, the temptation is: If they can do it, why can’t I?
Then, you have all these self-made pastors all over the place - you know, nobody trained them, nobody ordained them, but they have this ability to speak, a sugar-coated mouth. They say ‘God says’ and ‘God says’ and ‘God says’ - and people listen to them. There is so much poverty in our society. They become so popular. And of course they have their godfathers in America, in its TV religion. They worship what I call ‘Utility God’. It is a religion that is devoid of the Cross, of the [Second Coming], of judgement - and when you take all those out of Christianity, what do you have? Materialism.
So, how do you combat all this? At our end we are working very hard to try to ensure that when these evil men rear their ugly heads they will have no collaborators to help them at this end. People at this end too must try. It takes two to tango. It takes two to tango.
I know that you and your colleagues in Nigeria have had personal experience of some of the tensions between the Muslim and Christian communities. What advice would you give us in this country?
A few years ago, when I stated that our first cheek has been hit, the other cheek has been hit, now we have no other cheek to turn, the Western media demonised me. There were some church fathers, too, called me names. On another occasion, I said: Muslim youths in Nigeria who are killing us and destroying our property have no monopoly of violence. Oh! Again, your media tore me apart. But when you had your own dose of what we have been going through in my country, you knew what I was talking about.
Let’s come back to the question. In Nigeria, I have very many Muslim friends, like the Sultan of Sokoto, who is the head of the other Muslims. An amiable man. Great man. Dr [Lateef] Adegbite [secretary-general of the Nigerian Supreme Council of Islamic Affairs] is from the same home [town] as me. His house and my parents’ house are maybe 200 metres apart. In my part of Nigeria, there is hardly anybody who does not have Muslims and Christians in their family. It was not an issue until this madness started in the 1980s, I think, and they began to distinguish between Muslims and Christians - ‘Oh, Nigeria must be a Muslim country,’ you know, ‘must be a Christian [country]‘ - and all this killing and destruction started. It’s a new thing.
The question is: How do we respond to that? Well, we set out to make friends. We try to identify issues of morality, of social development, where we can work together. We come together with the Sultan to tell the government: ‘Please, give us good governance! Give us adequate power supply! Give us good water supply!’ We address national issues that affect all of our people.
And we encourage our followers never to engage in violence. We say, ‘If you have any problems, let us know! Let us find ways of resolving them!’ We encourage our Muslim elders to constantly educate their followers. In the church we succeed because we have youth organisations and through their leaders we appeal to our young people to remember who they are: followers of Christ, the Prince of Peace. And so we’ve been able to contain many of our youth from going out and being violent.
But here things are quite different. For many of us outside of this country, England is the home of Christianity. It’s our Mecca. We see England as a Christian nation, but somehow, for political reasons, for economic reasons, you let Christ go. You [have created] a huge religious vacuum in this country, in the name of multiculturalism– and now it is being filled by Islam.
Your leaders seem to have forgotten history so quickly. Look at North Africa! Look at the entire Mediterranean! That whole area once was Christian - the Church Fathers who produced all our creeds - Athanasius, Tertullian, Origen, Clement –were all from that area. But today it is what? Muslim. And it is happening here today.
What should be the principles that guide us in sustaining our Christian heritage in this country –
OK. Basically, basically, it’s very simple -
– in a way that also accommodates others?
Basically, it has to do with our attitude to scripture. In England, there’s a constant effort to throw God out of the system. That is what I see. Marriage is no longer an issue, family life is no longer an issue, Christian prayer is no longer an issue, going to church… They tell me that in this country there are only one million Anglicans in the pew on Sundays. And that doesn’t bother anybody. Now, that’s a shame. That is not even as much as one diocese in my country. By the grace of God, I now lead 20 million Anglicans in Nigeria. Twenty million. Not on paper; in the pew on Sundays.
So, the first thing is to appeal to our church fathers here to hold the word of God and guard it jealously and proclaim it unashamedly. And not to distort it. God doesn’t make mistakes. He doesn’t. People are so much afraid, they can no longer preach the gospel the way it should be preached. They climb into the pulpit and say they are preaching but you never hear the word ‘Jesus’, you never hear the word ’salvation’, you never hear the word ‘repentance’, you never hear the word ’sin’. Don’t talk about sin, it’s offensive! Oh God, come on! What kind of Christianity are we talking about here?
When the gospel is proclaimed uncompromisingly, let me tell you one thing: the Muslim respects you. When you have no regard for your religion, when you are neither here nor there, the Muslim disdains you - detests you. That’s what I’ve found in my own country. But when you stand firm for your faith…
As for religious dialogue… Like the Roman Catholics, the Muslims don’t give an inch away. It’s you evangelical Christians who give one inch away, give two inches away - and at the end of the day what do you have left? Zero. So, you need to review your agenda, if at all you should engage in religious dialogue.
What is your emotional response to these trends, which evidently trouble you?
I’m disappointed. I’m unhappy. I’m angry. But what can I do but in love, for the sake of Christ, continue to pray for this world? But Christian leaders in Europe, who so easily abdicate their duties - ho! someone needs to give them a wake-up call. There was a survey done not long ago that found that in America, with all its liberalism, more people go to church than in Europe. I was shocked when I discovered that.
So, Christian leaders, wake up from your slumber! Christian journalists, wake up! No apologies. Proclaim the word, in season and out of season! Professors in university, never be ashamed! Pastors, never be ashamed! Be whom God has called you to be!
How do we proclaim biblical truth while recognising the civil liberties of those who have very different lifestyles?
I think there are two issues here: the politicians on the one hand and the multitudes in general on the other. The politicians, what are their values? What is important to them? The vote. Popularity. Does Christ count any more? The foundations of England - the foundations of Europe - are the Bible. Your culture, your achievements, are by-products of Christianity. If you remove your Judaeo-Christian tradition, your heritage, what do you have left? You’re just hanging in the air. You lose your identity. And England is fast losing its identity. And the earlier your politicians are called back to embrace that identity, the better for this country. And only Christian politicians, helped by their clergy and bishops, will do that. It’s not too late.
As for the multitude in general - ‘Oh, freedom, freedom, freedom!’ That’s what they say, isn’t it? I call it ‘permissiveness’. You have a culture of anything goes. You see a woman dressed so shabbily, all her chest open, you see a man by the roadside playing guitar, wearing only pants, you see - Look, parents have a duty. Parents have a duty. Teachers have a duty. That is the way it used to be. We have abdicated our responsibility. Parents, teachers, pastors have all become irresponsible. That is why things are going haywire.
But how do we balance our Christian principles with our obligations in a liberal democracy, where other people have very different beliefs?
My problem is not the Muslim. My problem is not the non-Christian. My problem is the Christian. If we can be who we are supposed to be - Bible-believing, Bible-practising people - we can leave the rest to God.
So, it is a matter of example?
Yes! Our lifestyle. So, you don’t have to attack anybody. You don’t have to engage the Muslim, whatever. Leave the Muslim alone! You just be Christian as God wants you to be Christian! Live your Christian life! Carry out your responsibility as a Christian! Bring your child up in the fear of the Lord! All right?
Don’t just let - ‘freedom, freedom, freedom!’ Your child begins to grow up and do all sorts of things, you cannot even cane him, you cannot even reprimand him, you cannot do anything, they say it’s illegal, because all sorts of laws have removed parents’ control over their children. All this must change. Gradually. I tell you, do it in five years and this country will be transformed.
It’s no secret that there are huge tensions in the Anglican Communion. When you look back at New Testament times, when there were tensions between men of God like Paul and Peter and James that threatened to break up the new-born Church, are there lessons you can draw from that history?
There have always been tensions in the church and always will be. There have always been heresies and wrong teachings in the church - it’s a coming-together of sinners saved by the grace of God. All right?
But there are boundaries. There are agreed, settled - I mean, I know you are talking about the homosexual problem now, so let me answer you the best way that I can. As a family, we came together [at the Lambeth Conference] in 1998 and we said, overwhelmingly: We cannot endorse same-sex union, because it’s incompatible with scripture. We cannot endorse the ordination of active homosexuals to the ministry, because a minister is supposed to be a wholesome example to all people. When you have a person who has a particular orientation, he’s acceptable only to his own clique and that you cannot [tolerate] in the church.
So, we agreed on those two things. Democratically - we voted. But the very champions of democracy said, ‘Oh, that’s rubbish’ and continued to do exactly what we said should not be done. In 2003, when we got word that they were going to consecrate an open, active gay to the episcopate, we met at the gracious invitation of our leader, Dr Rowan, in his palace in London and we warned: ‘Please don’t do this! Please don’t do it! It will destroy our church.’ We said: ‘If you do this thing’ - I am quoting the communiqué directly now - ‘it will tear the fabric of our communion at its deepest level.’
That wasn’t a mere religious rhetoric. And I called my brother out, Frank Griswold, who was Primate [of the Episcopal Church in the United States of America] at that time. I said, ‘Look, please!’ and I embraced him. ‘You and I have come a long way. For the sake of the rest of the church, please tell your people: We will have to close shop. We will have to close all our churches in Africa, and Asia. As a family, please don’t!’
In a family, there are things you agree not to do. I tell you what, this member of our family went out and did exactly what we said should not be done. And that’s why we have this problem. Ever since, we’ve been trying, we’ve been meeting and meeting and meeting and meeting, issuing pastoral letters, issuing communiqués - all to no avail. All to no avail. Their idea is to make all of us do what they are doing. And we are saying, ‘No! You repent!’ So. They will not repent and we will not join them. So, we have this tension.
Am I clear enough?
Archbishop, you’re praised sometimes and condemned –
Most of the time.
How does Akinola the man deal with that?
Look, Christ went through far much more. Paul went through far much more. All the apostles suffered far much more than I will ever suffer. All right? And who am I that people call me names, that they abuse me, that they misquote me? For me, no big deal. Honestly. No big deal. Whenever this bashing comes, this kicking comes, I rejoice. Believe me, I rejoice. I turn it to body lotion and I rub my body with it and I shine for Christ. Believe me! I tell you what, you want to abuse me, go ahead and abuse me! But let God be glorified! As long as God is glorified, that’s what matters for me.
And when they say they are praising me, I say: Oh! What have I done to deserve praise? What can I do unless God made it possible? That is my attitude. ‘Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it.’ There is nothing I can achieve in my own power, in my own strength, in my own wisdom. Absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing. So, to answer your question: praise, oh! let God be glorified! Abuse, oh! so what?
As you look to the future, can you differentiate between your own ambitions and your ambitions for the Church?
I don’t have any personal ambition - as I said, who am I minus Christ? Nothing. I see myself as a tool in the hand of God, called, ordained, to serve the Lord. I do what he wants me to do and I leave the stage. All the glory goes to him, not to me. My prayer is simply that God make me a faithful servant.
My prayer, my hope for God’s church is to be God’s church, to be true to itself, to do what it was put in this world to do, regardless of who it offends, whatever the pain, whatever the cost. Simply do it! And God is faithful. God is faithful. The moment you begin to doubt God, the moment you begin to distrust him, you become ineffective servants, ineffective witnesses. But if you trust him, and obey him, he is there to stand by you.
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